--- title: "The State of Vue in 2022 with Monterail's Szymon Licau" description: "In this video, I'm interviewing Szymon Licau, Frontend Principal Engineer at Monterail, about the State of #Vue in 2022. Monterail has created this report for the last four years, and they are always on the top of their game. It's an exciting read!" date: "2022-07-24T19:36:08.000Z" url: "https://timbenniks.dev/videos/tim/037-8wxdfixxktw" youtube_url: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXDFiXXkTw" playlist: "tim" image: "https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8wXDFiXXkTw/maxresdefault.jpg" tags: ["frontend", "product-strategy", "devrel"] --- # The State of Vue in 2022 with Monterail's Szymon Licau In this video, I'm interviewing Szymon Licau, Frontend Principal Engineer at Monterail, about the State of #Vue in 2022. Monterail has created this report for the last four years, and they are always on the top of their game. It's an exciting read! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXDFiXXkTw ## Transcript hey hello what is up i am finally back with another interview video so in this video i am talking to shimon litzo oh i really hope i said his polish name correctly anyways um shimon works at monterrell where he is a principal engineer and at monteville for the last four years they have made the state of fuel report so they investigate the community they figure out where few is and they give you a report on the state of the technology and so they reached out to me it's like hey tim do you want to interview simon who knows a lot about few he actually worked on the report and it just could just be a great conversation and so yes it was so without further ado here is shimon from monteville and let's rock hello simon how are you welcome to this interview hello i'm great tim thanks for having me awesome so i just did an intro and i probably spelled your name or pronounced your name quite wrong so would you mind actually for the audience pronouncing it the right way okay um and no worries about it because i know that polish language is not that easy on pronunciation for foreigners so yeah so actually even my last name is giving people trouble here in poland because it's not usual so yeah to pronounce it correctly i'm shimon litau i know who she sounds scary but that's polish language for you it actually sounds pretty cool and so now that you have that we know your cool name and can you say a little bit about where you work and what you do and why this interview anyways okay so i'm working remotely for montreal which is a company that is an official view partner and also happens to be an alpha of the state of view reports and as for myself i'm a principal engineer of the frontend team at montreal which probably the title doesn't explain much but to put it shortly it's a leadership position where i'm ensuring that our fountain team grows learns and shares the knowledge and basically delivers the work and they are simply happy doing it awesome so at montreal you're basically kind of an agency building cool websites next to doing the research and making the view report then yeah pretty much we are a software agency we are not only like you know just doing view we also have people who do react angular and we also have multiple backend technologies so yep cool so quite full stack i like that yeah um so i went through this whole report and it's really cool it looks great it reads well just one thing and this is a bit of a cheeky question but i'm going to ask it anyways because generally when you look at the state of something there's community in there right so if you look at the state of js or the state of css there's always like these huge questionnaires with a lot of community and i kind of didn't see that in this report so that's actually not a it's fine because you are in the community right and so what do you think of the state of view so if you would ask me today i would say that the state of view is nice it's good it's fresh sort of like um out of the oven fresh state because like you know we have a lot of new cool things the view itself is quite cool it's been a long time since i've been this excited about you and all the new things that happened but the key is if you would ask me today this is how i'd answer and because of all the rights and all the hard work and all the different things that happened last year we are kind of still dealing with the consequences and the costs of what happened even today and [Music] if you would ask questions shall we go and go on i i'm just excited about the next part but continue so if you would ask me this like let's say beginning of last year where we didn't even have a single project at monterey with you free yet and so on it would be like yeah i'm digging this but i have some worries i have some like you know mixed feelings there's some anxiety some developers are worried and then we also had so many new things which probably didn't help i'm guessing many developers might have left field left behind or feeling like they have to catch up because they are stuck in a huge future project no chance to switch from it and they are like oh gosh so many things happened what what now am i like so far behind so much things happened on paper so yeah yeah you're actually pointing to a question i had a bit later but we can actually talk about that now that you brought it up because there's so much new tooling now in view three there's all these new ways of everything how it's built and now you even have next three coming up with all new things as well and so libraries now have to support both view two and three of course later only three which is easier but some haven't started yet or somewhere in the middle and then next came out and then half the modules don't work and so i feel like sometimes our community is a bit in limbo we're all still really positive but it's kind of this vibe of where am i what should i do can we now go here or is it not stable enough and so how has this impacted your projects so i can imagine this being a very real feeling people have because like i said you i'm saying this as a person who had the all the time in the world to catch up to learn these tools to get them know closely and i'm like yeah this is cool but if you are a person who just like you know does a full-time job and doesn't have the time to catch up it sounds scary because like you know you had viewedx now you have pina you had webpack which you built your application now there is this beat now there is this big test your development has changed from vito to fallout there's just so much right and i can really imagine that it sounds scary it definitely impacted our projects especially like you know considering things new things we built because we have to consider okay is it time for v3 or maybe it's not maybe it's too risky at the beginning of the year we had a project where we just decided let's stick with youtube that's safe we are not sure how dangerous it could be dependencies and all and that's okay but later half and then the year for example we jumped in we've got into view three feet and built a nice hybrid application which should be releasing some on mobile devices which is cool and right now we are kind of like view free all the way as a default for new projects we even have a project where we decided to use nuxfree knowing that it might be a lot so safe but you know we had some small issues some small bags with auto importing recently for example but overall it's nice and i think that you know it's a good choice to be on top of it because like i said for example i'm not until recently and i think there might still be for example developers view developers at monterrey who didn't even use view free in production yet so you know we have to start somewhere and if we build other developers have experienced with it we also can share this knowledge with others so yeah yeah it definitely was quite dynamic and you know a lot of challenges with challenging decisions and lots of decision-making i actually wonder if this could have been helped better likely not because when you look at the report avenue is actually talking about hey are we going to go big bang or incremental change and he actually pointed out that lots of the modules and libraries that exist that use like internal view to stuff and they really wanted to get away from that and what he just said is like we're just gonna go big bang and we're gonna work on this for a while and then it's gonna come out and then we'll see what happens and that's kind of what happened and so in when you look at that building a library like that or a framework if you compare that to let's say projects where companies want a new website and you're working on this right what is your opinion are you one of those big bang people or iterative safe changes so you know in my day-to-day job i'm very much accustomed to incremental releases and changes and i think that's the normal way of software agency because we know we need to mitigate risks we need to get the feedback from the client early we need to validate our choices and it's fine and we are also completely in control what kind of the version of the software the client all the users use in terms of library it's not so easy right because if you do incremental slow changes each of those versions someone might be using and it's also much harder to like you know deviate from something that's like at the core of it so changing something so deeply entangled and used broadly everywhere is hard and i can understand such a big right approach being reasonable situations you know and it's i don't imagine it being easy to do like incrementally and perhaps even the efforts to manage and plan such an incremental approach would be much more costly than just a big bug right yeah and like when you do your projects like i've been at where you are in previous jobs where doing a big bang would maybe take like a year and even though it's just one project um that was still too hard to do because you don't see changes during that time of this one year and you have to support both systems anyways the funny thing is we now came out with few three and there's now everything on feet and all the cool new tools with next three and now looking at the market or the space where we work things are changing a little bit right we're seeing of course they're always changing but it's kind of funny how first we had all you know um single page apps then we went all in on jam stack then we had a bit of a mix and now everybody wants to do more on the edge and go back to a bit of ssr again which kind of makes sense right because you want less hydration on the front end and you maybe want to do some dynamic stuff on the edge close to the user ssr even and then hydrate a little bit it's kind of a whole different approach again and so when you read in the report they're actually saying that ssr in q3 is good but it's not really finished yet it's not super optimized and there's a lot to be gained so think about this right in a year when you now have to build a new e-commerce website with all the bells and whistles at proper scale with fuel and nux let's say how would that look do you think um based on what you know now and based on where the market is going and the tools that you have so that's a lot of questions in one kind of but like if i would have to choose and choose myself because i'm a view developer i would probably stick with knox 3 and v3 and i feel like it's a safe bet considering that the big rights that we had are very promising in terms of how we are prepared for the future and direction actually the front end takes right now is very interesting to me and it's like so exciting to see because i'm always like a decade into web development and i've been starting with full stack development jquery and all let's just you know forget about this we're dating ourselves i was so happy when jquery came out because it stabilized how we did dumb stuff yeah that's true but you know we had this idea that there was just web development right it was just full stack and then we started to divide the front end started to grow and grew and grew and get more complicated we did a lot of things in a hacky way because there was no apis yet for it we had hash bass router routing and so on there's just so much but then the reality reality hit us we've been throwing megabytes of javascript and bundled content to the users and that's not okay obviously in terms of like e-commerce that's absolutely not okay that's not how you should do it so we started to experiment with some cyber side generation seven site rendering we started like you know come a full circle and come back and be like you know maybe like the old paradigms are fine in some way and we should probably stick to them and for a good reason and it's very exciting you know how current frameworks approach it and even how new frameworks get created to solve this like quick which is gaining so much attention for good reasons how crazy different it is and how it tries to solve the problems and even from the backend perspective there is the rails team with their hot wire turbo and stimulus approach which is like even different paradigms to solve these issues they basically throw everything upside down and everything now is back again on the back end and also just plain old html everywhere but it works and it's very interesting so to me um i feel like this is basically the area to watch out for in the coming months and years and i'm quite excited for it but right now with you know next three being out lazarus candidates still but you know stabilizing and view free out i think that hand in hand together they probably will do some crazy stuff i've already seen what's max freeze doing with nitro we even had uh daniel rowe at the meetup at montreal back a few months ago and he gave us a presentation and like you know you couldn't not be hacked about its next fee and what it's going to do i actually just did a presentation as well where i used nox 3's nitro engine on the edge runtimes of different edge providers and so on the cloud flare it just it just works really easily and then i went to netlify and then i had to run it in dino and that also worked and so you can see that the the team at next has worked so hard on nitro and they saw that this was gonna happen like two years ago which i think that's great and so now when you look you have like systems like astro or svelte kit or remax they're all kind of playing in that playground and so while we wait for the rest to be become stable in the view world have you actually tried these or are you such a fanboy like me that we just wait so personally you know i'm fine with writing actually but for example at montreal we do have projects with for example which used next js and i heard personally some opinions for example like next introduced some new things or caught up with some things that were not there yet so it's really nice that we have a bit of a broader view as a software agency that you know doesn't just do view development but also others so you know it's good to take a good look at all the frameworks and how they are doing how good things they are doing maybe there are some bad things they are doing but like you know honestly i'm for now sticking with view and just my bet is on them you and max are probably going to do some extremely cool stuff and i'm very positive on that yeah actually i agree um for work i've had to like dip my toe in next js and for sale and stuff and it actually works very well it's super stable so i'm kind of excited to see the differences when next comes in with the new few stuff and i think it's going to be a great time for developers it's all going to be super awesome um dude thank you very much for this interview um i loved it um it was nice to meet you for the first time actually um well thanks and hopefully speak to you soon cheers thanks tim likewise