An Interview with Scott Tolinski from Level up Tutorials

today I got to interview Scott to linskey from level up tutorials um Scott has its own website where he teaches web development but he also has a huge YouTube channel and a podcast with West boss Wow this guy is my idol like he has all these amazing social media outlets he's content creator is a teacher he does all these things and it does seem super well um he's also been doing them for a long time so in this video he talks about what he had to learn to do a good job in this field what it means to be a good teacher but we also talked about how he deals with crazy comments and social media things and even about how he was a breakdancer and a b-boy and how that experienced helped him in his life to become successful so without further ado this is the interview with Scott to linski from level up tutorials welcome Scott welcome to the channel so cool for you to be here thanks a lot thanks for having me I'm so excited to actually have a fellow youtuber on here I didn't even expect that and then suddenly there's this guy with all these followers he's like yeah sure I'll do the interview what's really I'm so happy with this thanks so much oh yeah yeah I know I love doing stuff like there's a any chance that I can get some yeah I guess when you do stuff about the community to me that's like it's so valuable to do stuff together right even if you are in the same space I really enjoy that so let's talk about your name for a sec because actually I do that every interview because I talk to people from all over the world and it sounds kind of European to me so normally I ask people who are died say from Ukraine or something to speak their name the way it's supposed to be said I think yours is gonna sound pretty American still but would you mind like pronouncing it your way sure it's Scott talansky and it's of Polish origins okay and have you ever been there or did you grow up in the US or yeah I grew up in Detroit area southeast Michigan and my grandparents were from you know Southeast Michigan they came to work in the automotive industry back in the 50s and their parents both lived in Montreal so they originally came from Poland to Montreal to Detroit and so I have never been to Poland I actually just went to Europe for the first time a couple years ago I went to Romania to speak at a conference so I haven't I'd been to you know Japan a couple times had been Canada you know South America but I'd never been to Europe until very recently so given the opportunity I'll definitely go but seeing as how I somewhat recently fractured my tailbone flying for me is not a whole lot of fun right now especially Wow can you imagine and that might be a nice bridge that a for a question I had a bit later but I think you might have a fractured or tailbone doing some dancing mm-hmm no I hit my tailbone doing something really mundane which is hilarious I I was cleaning the bathroom and I bent down really quickly and I cranked it right on the spout and I bent I bent the spout off the wall was how hard I hit it and then I went snowboarding a couple days later and I cranked it on a rail and so I think just those two things combined and then I flew to Iceland and over the course of that flight it was just like sealed the deal and I've been dealing with it ever since it's been like two and a half years of recovery it's oh wow it's a rough injury I'll tell you that yeah and it's the mundane stuff to get you there right fall in the bathtub stuff like that god yeah it was no fun so when you were in Europe did you notice like a lot of cultural difference um it was it was definitely different I saw us I was in Iceland and then Romania in Romania was pretty cool I was in a Cluj and it was it was a it was a definitely trip for me especially because like I said I hadn't done a lot of traveling to Europe specifically but I I just I don't know everything's just you know just that slightly different you know it's yeah if we're so slightly different exactly so let's jump a little bit here because like I said just just now that you you're actually doing a whole bunch of like tutorials if your own website with all that stuff and you have a youtube channel so how did you get started with all that yeah so okay so I we used to watch a lot of YouTube tutorials I worked at an agency like a 12 person agency we did all sorts of some pretty decently big work and my boss and I would watch a lot of YouTube tutorials over the time and we'd just be like he do that this guy's making a thousand bucks a month or whatever I could do that and make a thousand bucks a month they write something and yeah just like it was at a time when there wasn't a lot of coding channels and we just sort of sat on the deal for a long time nobody did anything with it we didn't really have the motivation and then something you kind of hinted that a minute ago is that I do a lot of dancing in a b-boy or breakdance therefore oh gosh like almost 17 years now I was 16 17 years cool for a very long time and it was I remember it very clearly was the day before Valentine's Day and I slammed my my head pretty hard on the ground and I got a concussion and while I was doing some maneuver upside down spinning and I got a concussion and it sidelined me from the gym it's not allowing me from even doing yoga like I couldn't do anything a little own break breaking so that happened in February right before Valentine's Day because we had a photo shoot scheduled for my wife and eyes engagement photos and we had to cancel cuz at half my face was black and blue bruised I like cranked it right here on the great about right here this whole side of my face was bruised so she wasn't psyched about that because set up for February and then we were like okay well I guess we gotta move it to the summer and change all that I got the whole thing um so either way that happened in February and then by March I I was just so Borg that I decided to take up just say hey let's try this YouTube thing we started it and I just started cranking out videos and the time that I would normally go to practice like twice a week you know for a couple hours I just basically took that exact same time that I used to go practice instead of recording videos in that same timeslot and it's like well no additional time added in into my day and just record topics of things that I was doing at work all day oh here's this thing here's how to install Drupal here's how to you know use sass whatever and uh Wow 2012 so all these years later it's it's like still going changed yeah like you did like three videos in the last two weeks or something I think I have recorded a lot more than three Wow yeah so this month is kind of rough for me because I'm doing two series I'm doing one paid premium series I do one like premium series that's like 20-some videos a month every single month almost like a magazine subscription level up tutorials calm right so I do one one premium series that you have to pay to access and then this month I was like well hey that wasn't a big enough challenge let's do - for some reason which is just a bad idea so I'm doing like 40 videos this month and I've recorded dang I've probably recorded like 25 right now so I'm not in pretty good pace to actually hit it and yeah so it's it's been it's been a trip I mean that that's the one thing is that when you do a like a couple thousand video tutorials on YouTube you get a lot of reps in and you get a lot of you get a lot of people telling you what you're doing wrong all the time you know really really good for that so hey your font your fonts stinks your color scheme is is too hard to read your you know whatever so then I've like really perfected how I do all this stuff and that's since led to just overall I don't know just the ease in my flow of working I really noticed this it's like I guess it's like repetition repetition repetition until you get there because I've watched like a couple of your videos of course because some of my friends said hey you have to check that out and I did and you do it with such ease and you know what I'm making YouTube videos myself now but I've never done it I've always been on stage playing music speaking in front of people in front of likes et Ossa for work but this wow I hey I think I've done like 25 takes for an intro easy yeah and that's all thing is I don't I've gotten really good at not having to do those takes and I don't write a script and I don't like the only my preparation is the code that I wrote ahead of time like I write the code I have it up on the monitor I know the code that I'm writing so then I have this screen that's like here's what I'm gonna be teaching you here's the where I'm gonna get to and I could just go through it and talk and talk and code and whatever because I know the material I don't have to prepare I don't practice other than writing the code and I don't write a script so if I if I coop up look what I do is that's like I flub a word I stop I take a second I just retake it and that makes editing really easy cuz you always want your Haake you know where the gap was basically yeah and I only hired it pretty visually so like uh-uh if I look at my like after I get done recording I look at the timeline and I just see the gaps and I just immediately put a cut at all of the gaps and then when I go through and look when I hit those cuts I just it adjust it adjusted and it just it breezes through it so I do all the editing right now myself and then it is a kind of I got it in down to a science I'll tell you that Wow okay so I certainly do not have that time I'm gonna be checking out here so given that you do it this way um what do you think makes a good teacher because you know what I think you're clearly successfully if a bunch of subscribers a lot of people watch your videos so what do you think makes you a good teacher in this case um I think understanding the pain points that people are going to hit is the biggest thing like when when I teach something it's typically something that I've learned somewhat recently and not to say that like I I don't know the content because I you know I research pretty heavy but if I'm building an app what I do is I go and fairly blind like I like to not read the docs the whole time and just try things and then hit hit issues write hit pain points and and that like leads me to like understand the kind of things that people are just going to try or just do and identify what those the pain points are so for me I think what makes a good teacher is being able to understand the mindset of somebody who like just flat-out doesn't understand the concept and and we get that a lot I mean some teachers they just they know that the the in depth and the technical things way too much to the point that they're spouting off jargon like everybody understands it and that's like such a huge huge thing is like people don't get what things are and you know I I think I understand that because it's I don't know programming a development it's not that it didn't come easy to me I'm definitely more of like a a visual developer like CSS that's my my jam right and so when I was first learning JavaScript it took me a long time and it was hard it was hard to learn any of the frameworks and now I feel really proficient in all of it and I feel very comfortable with it but I think I still hold on to like understanding what exactly new people will have trouble with now I think that's actually a really good trait to have because I've been quite advanced for such a long time now on like pretty high level with big clients that I actually kind of assume that people understand things so if you for example look at the videos on my channel they are pretty high level already but it's just the stuff that bugs me during the day let's say that I talk about but it doesn't mean that that actually means I'm a good teacher because I might not actually know what people struggle with because I'm kind of assuming if someone is in my team that's the level of everybody it's obviously not true right totally and and when I when I first started starting these these videos we was pretty new I mean I worked at I got my first agency job in 2011 and I started the tutorials in 2012 so I was pretty green when we first started and I think the one thing I understood the most from starting in that position was that there's a huge gap or a huge like missing space in tutorial content for people who just like like they're they're really new to everything they're new to everything and because of that like less people will get value out of it if it's if it's too high level and if it's a little bit lower level a little bit more I don't know very explicit like I remember like a specific one of the tutorials I had done in a meteor tutorial back in the day I had explained something and just explaining even like what the code was in JavaScript language I remember I said like alright now keep in mind that this is just a function accepting an object this is like nothing more than a function accepting an object and people were like oh I can't believe I thought it was something special it's not anything special it's just a function like well I don't know why I thought it was something special but like sometimes people like when they're learning something new they have a hard time contextualizing everything it's like no this is just JavaScript and if you learn it as just JavaScript did not oh right meteors way of doing thing a reacts way of doing thing then you understand it a little bit better I always talk about like dot map and react like people left a comment in my videos like why do react have this weird dot map word keyword instead of like a for each loop well okay well if you understand why a map is appropriate and where a map come from just JavaScript and what it's actually doing then the whole thing makes more sense and you understand it better and you have better control over your code so yeah it's it this is what I like kind of about reacting it really keeps the data very neat and you know where everything's going yeah and you get better at JavaScript while writing it which is such a huge like starting reactant you know 2015 or whatever I've just gotten so much better JavaScript because of it well it forces you through certain structures that are really code like this is what I also sometimes don't like about it but that's a whole different video I know I started I started writing a lot of spelt code and now that I'm like in that that you know I've done all that react stuff it's like oh it's actually really nice to have all these like template helpers and exactly I was gonna say like react first a few sources felt for example the other two are much more template driven and react is much more data focused but that's like a very long discussion we don't have to do that imagine like the content you make now right quick you transfer that the stuff you do now to let's say a company where I work which is a global tech company that has like some sort of Academy kind of thing do you think that translates for like consultants wanting to learn something or is it really far away I think so I I mean my content is are largely just focused on like so if I'm gonna teach you react I'm gonna teach you real world like the stuff that year XR gonna use and I'm going to teach you the basics but am i teach you the basics while wardrobe while we're doing something real-world like I'm doing us felt sapper spelled course right now and we're just building a blog with markdown from scratch it's like all right I'm gonna teach you all of the concepts within this but the end result is going to be an actual blog application that you can use with transitions and animations so that you can take that and say adapt it to just about anything you want to do I used to work for Ford and I was on this like uh prototyping team at Fort where we were coming up with all these experimental interfaces and I like I really I feel like I understand that sort of corporate world where they have very real demands and and a lot of my understanding about what people need to do in their day to day job comes from years and years of working at corporations and agencies overall because I didn't I didn't start to do this full-time until somewhat recently so ah so you've kept working at agencies or that places for a while doing this yep yeah maybe until like 2017 I think maybe even later then I worked at a startup out here too after I moved out to Denver so I I lived and worked in southeast Michigan for a long time and I worked at a 12-person agency I worked at a 24 person agency and then I worked at Lookout 3,000 person agency and so like I got like set and I were to start up like a I feel like I've gotten such a wide range of experience in my dev career that like the stuff I'm teaching largely is built around the the things that I've learned in those experiences oh yeah I think that's super important because for example I work a lot with few GS and now there's this new version coming out that looks a bit more react it's more composable and stuff and everybody's like yeah you need to go and do that and then I'm like yeah but I have a team with four guys in India four in Ukraine a couple in New York couple in Paris they're all have different approaches and I just need like a shallow learning curve because otherwise my project will just not succeed so I kind of choose the one that is longest most stable easy to learn and then later on we add complexity and generally when you look at some tutorials extinct yours are really clear but a lot of other people just dive in deep and X start with map functions and all those other things that these guys might have no idea like what is a unit test why do I need to write it like there's so much discrepancy there but it's nice to see that you're actually is it's like proper beginner but it helped me also you know I'm not oh yeah props for you and that's really the goal you know it and and I understand that like how how teams are always specifically like in all these big environments no matter what it is a team of developers is always going to move slower than like an individual who's just picking up and using the latest and greatest because I can pick up and use the latest and greatest but like if I was managing a team of 20 people I wouldn't expect everybody to be on the same page there and that's that's such a huge thing that I think a lot of people who are learning or teaching just like don't get then it's a different world exactly so something else when you look at like your social media and your profiles and everything it all looks so amazing and but the way to get there it's not always the easiest I can imagine there there must have been some sort of challenges or things and like what I know for myself is that failures really helped me I'm like it can be any sort of thing like and then because of that I get better at something do you have something similar do you have like challenges that you had to overcome and now you're like really high up and you're happy with what you're doing I've had just a tremendous amount of failures and challenges I mean even specifically to go back to like other things like non-coding related stuff so when I first started dancing and like in dancing competitively we used to go to these competitions they're called battles we used to go to these battles and when I first started this guy who is like pretty high up in the scene in Chicago it was like listen you're not gonna win anything for like five years so don't like just go and try to win but don't don't be like too hard on yourself when you're not winning just learn from it and it sure enough he was right we want our fur we had entered probably like 50 battles before we ever won one in a battle is like largely like a tournament structure where there's like 40 teams that enter and like a team of four people and then they pick the 16 best teams and then those guys go off in a bracket style and you get to the end where you're in the finals or whatever and you win a big old check or whatever so I have like a giant check that I won for my first battle it's like so awesome to keep right so yeah before to give a bit of context because I know what b-boys do but I don't know how the battles work like you you do dint you do like a dance-off and somebody judges is that out well yeah so so there typically will be like the let's say like a four-on-four competition right because they can range anywhere from one on one to ten on ten whatever yeah so in at four on four competition you pick your four four guys on your team your 14 not necessarily guys 14 members right and so you have your four team members and they have their 14 members there's a DJ and some odd amount of judges the judges just you know pick who wins based on you know who's overall the best so the DJ puts on music that you've never heard before and maybe it's a song that you know maybe it's a song that this is the first time you're hearing it some DJ's like to even like really make this stuff up almost on the spot using loops and whatever and so you you don't know the music so it's not choreographed you can't plan for it and you just go one person at a time then the next team then the next team then the next team you just circle back and forth until either a set limit or a time limit and at the end of it the the winner is usually pretty clear sometimes it's not and you know there's there's all sorts of competing judging judging formats right now in fact it's gonna be in the Olympics so because of that allow they've been really solidifying everything yeah paris 2024 or 20 years it kind of looks like an artistic it's like an art form right so how can you judge because to me it's all good or is there also certain technique if you can score on so there's there's like almost like a bunch of different categories so like the the basics of it is really that there's the athletic side of things we were doing the spins and flips and whatever and then there's the whole justic musical side of things because your here's a song you've never heard you have to be able to be on beat not necessarily just like dancing on beat but on beat with everything you do like if someone comes out and does a spin trick or whatever and then somebody else does a spin trick or whatever and they're on every single beat the guy who's on every beat is gonna win so the music is first and foremost the most important thing and so like somebody can win a competition doing only actual stand up dancing footwork dancing whatever somebody can win that competition just doing that stuff over somebody who did something really amazing as like a trick because the tricks aren't valid tricks are valued but they're valued at like the same degree that somebody who's a really good dancer is valued so it's also entered lame and fail you I guess and there's less confidence and all these extra things there's there's so many like intricacies in it because when people first start watching it they see the crazy stuff and they say alright this this person won because they did the craziest stuff but that's once you've seen the crazy stuff a hundred times it's not as it's not as exciting like I get really excited when I see somebody doing something I've never seen or something interesting or something crazy artistic or whatever so once you once you start to get into the intricacies of it it there's a there's a very high level of depth artistic depth within within everything beyond you know the shareable image of somebody doing something saying head spin or something so did training for all this stuff set you up for life like because you're you're quite successful now at work and all that creativity and like that's death like work together yeah and like I said we entered like 50 battles that we lost all of them I mean that's hundreds of rounds where I've gone out and just completely lost and then just got used to losing and learning from it lose lose lose and then we won one and it's like once you win one you just you finally get it and after that we want a whole ton like we would able to like show up to things just knowing we had the whole tournament in the bag like that's okay we just got it and like sometimes cool yeah it was cool to be able to show up with like two two guys and just like no all right no matter who we face it's not going to be that tough unfortunately we never got to that level outside side of the Midwest we entered a lot of stuff in you know la in New York or whatever and just could get demolished by those scenes are so much stronger yeah sure um but but that set me up first for like being able to deal with failure and just like that like YouTube videos I probably produce like 200 videos before a lot of them really got any traction and when I was like really just I didn't I wasn't doing it with the expectation that it was going to be easy that I was going to do one and all the Sun was gonna be you know you know making money on YouTube which is tough to do anyways but like I didn't have that expectation and I think having the ability to say like alright you can beat your head against this thing and if you give up then that's it's never gonna never gonna happen right so like being able to learn lessons from those failures was just such a important aspect of that training and again even starting a business so like I work full time on level up tutorials my income is entirely generated through our subscription model on our website with this premium content and this was not my first time coming up with a subscription model and it was not my first time trying to make this business work in fact I like failed several times at different business models I tried to do like like a $8 a month but like you didn't get a whole lot of value out of it it's like oh you don't get ads on the site okay well nobody wanted that then when we cared and then it was like okay well I'll do the West boss model where here's one course it's 180 bucks you know it's a big old course with a lot of information nobody wanted it and and it wasn't until like I really refined that through all the lessons that I learned in terms of like alright what is actual value what are people willing to pay for what are people not willing to pay for like how do I provide the most amount of value in a way that like it makes the product actually valuable so that that was like so many learning lessons where I've just learned to to learn from my failures in that sort of way and examine why things aren't working instead of just trying to think it isn't working over and over again yeah and so if someone wanted to start now doing this what would be your advice to them if they wanted to start a business or a YouTube channel because I think those are very different pretty different right let's start with YouTube so for YouTube I think the key that people all people misses is just the value gets shared right value gets passed along if you're providing good quality content that provides value it's going to naturally get people's attention people are going to want to share it they're gonna want to pass it along especially if it helps them but also like helping you shouldn't necessarily try to help a million people maybe help you know a thousand people and that's like pretty good too you know yeah so a lot of these like meteor videos I'm doing now I'm not expecting them to get more than you know a thousand views maybe like I don't care if they do or don't because for me it's it's it's more about the value that I'm providing to the people who want to see the stuff you just put you put that thing on them on the map for me again so I'm gonna really into that now so yeah I'm not against it but it's it's pretty interesting right so that that actually worked super interesting and in it it's all about it's all about it's just providing that value in in understanding like what that platform is like like YouTube specifically is is a platform where people like free things right so like I I've like really sort of separated like what makes a good YouTube video from what makes a good tutorial product I mean they're very different for me another thing that people tend to ignore especially when they're first starting out is the power of like high quality production and I don't mean like a lot of equipment high quality production I mean you you have a good looking camera you have good audio it doesn't need to be the craziest audio like I have a fancy audio setup it doesn't need to be as fancy as mine it can be like a blue bird or whatever anything that's better than a webcam mic right so having a decent mic decent audio and then understanding the presentation of it all where you have your code on the screen is that code readable can users really understand what you're doing sometimes there's like little things I remember I watched some video tutorials when first starting and I was so frustrated because the person would type type type type type and then command wo or command tab away from it really quickly so it's like you had to like get that frame down to the second to pause the video to see what their code is oh well yeah little act of being like let me linger on this code for a second that way if you want to look at it you can pause the video like those little things that you just learned and pick up from watching a lot of bad content that people just don't seem to inherently understand and maybe that's maybe that's why my content got good in the first place is because I watched a lot of YouTube tutorials over my career and I feel like I know what makes a good one and what makes a bad one just by what I've experienced in how annoying some things can be yeah I can really imagine people putting their internal processes onto the viewer by always alt tabbing all the time maybe some people just do that or like I know for myself my brain works quite fast doesn't mean it's good but it's fast it iterates a lot but if I put that on other people that are not like that that the toriel would be quite bad yeah yeah and it's all practiced it's one of those things that's like you don't even realize you're doing it because you've been programming this way for so long or this is just how you work and it it took some of it was things that I've noticed and some of it was just people skewering me and YouTube comments I remember like getting absolutely worked in a wordpress video for people because I didn't I spent like two minutes like talking about WordPress before I went into it and I like learned alright if the title is how to install WordPress I'd better be installing WordPress within you know twelve seconds of that video start sure otherwise people who went to go see that are gonna be really annoyed so that's like a lot of little things that you pick up I guess and have you ever had like those super negative comments that YouTube is known for yes yes by the way so you will and I've had so many that it's like outrageous I you know I had actually somebody sending me like for some reason they were sending me like a home homophobic slur every day to my inbox what my email I don't know why I would just get one from an unnamed email just like one line and just like okay thank you because apparently I blocked them on you comments or something but yeah people are a rough man I get so many of them and it's funny like I could probably like open it up and find any gun on a given day just like this video is totally worthless and he's just like oh thank you thank you for constructive feedback so I always just delete and block those people because like one the comments are not there but the comments on my videos this is their educational videos the comments are there to help other people along write the comments the the reason why they're there is if the the frameworks changed over time and somebody says has an update okay now you have to do this instead of this because you know the the version changed like the versions do like that's why the comments are there the comments aren't there for you to be like what's who's go do and you know he looks he looks like a loser or something so like you know I I've gotten so many comments negative comments over my dad just like I just Breeze him off and just do whatever yeah it's it must be rough so with all that knowledge and all that experience now so imagine you had like a big billboard and you can put it on the highway and then every day like hundreds of thousands of people would see it what would you write on that for people to read you know I got I thought about this because I was thinking like alright I think people need to be like just cooler to each other overall you know like be cool but I don't know I have this this tattoo here and it means a lot to me it's we got it on the day of my son was born my my dad and I both got the same one and it's it's an adapted Bruce Lee quote which is he says you know be water my friends and he's talking about the strength of water my my tattoo just says be like water so maybe that's what I would have it say because that whole whole interview with Bruce Lee right there was like pretty profound I'm a I'm a big kung-fu fan and granted the Bruce Lee films aren't necessarily my favorite films but like he as an individual is extremely inspiring to me and I'm a huge fan of him as a person through his his a philosophy stuff so in general just the the lessons that that can teach you about how to adapt to your surroundings but also how to shape your surroundings while adapting to them and how to be flexible in those sort of ways like water is it's it's like about being agile about stuff I can imagine and not letting it bother you as much yeah you're you're so like I mean if you think about it's like a river it it both it both conforms to its surroundings but it also shapes the surroundings themselves it's carving away the erosion but it's also fluid it adapts that it it you know just it begin it like it's just flexible it's yeah I think that's really a great one and actually I have a little story about something similar because I used to work with people in India a lot and I always have my colleagues kind of hate on them a little bit as developers and this is just the thing we do in the West but that's because we didn't really get their culture because someone from India who worked with Western people a long time he told me like we are more like water we are like super agile and we just do whatever it needs to get through the day to be successful and then move on and if the next day it's a bit different we'll do that so don't Griffis tasks that require a long planning and deep thinking give us different tasks to be super agile and super successful in the short term and once you start to get it it's like yeah man they're like the original agile kind of and now that we know and we work with each other's strengths like people in France where I'm from well I'm not French but I live here they are deep thinkers they're long planners that's just the way they are so if you combine those powers together it's suddenly it's all you know it starts to work so I really like that thing about be like water man thanks for that yeah yeah yeah it's always it's always shaped me and it was it's funny because I was now planning on getting that tattooed on myself at that moment and my dad was just like my parents weren't on for wouldn't my son was born and because they live in Michigan and he was like hey so if somebody was gonna get a tattoo keep in mind he's 60 years old and he has never had a tattoo in his entire life he was like if somebody's gonna get a tattoo here where were they gods like are you saying you want a tattoo right now he's like a nice yeah do you want to go get a tattoo he's like okay sure whatever whatever so it was a it was a great thing and I'm still glad I did it so yeah and if it means a lot to you a tattoo is worth a lot like it's nothing with my wife also we were going through a bunch of stuff and then every time something happens she actually celebrates that or mourns it with the tattoo and for her that means so much it's it's so yeah it's not found yeah exactly so man thank you so much to take the time because we're going quite far and I think we can talk for hours like this but then people won't watch it right so I I don't like to cut the stuff because it's really pure and awesome so thank you so much for joining me I really appreciate it anytime anytime great man thanks so much see ya yeah [Music]